Captain America : Civil War – Bucky’s apartment assault
when he flirted with a girl right in front of you over 70yrs ago and you gonna make damn sure he knows youre still steaming
That CA:CW helicopter scene. I fixed it. You´re welcome.
Hi! Nah, I don’t think that’s true. There’s tons of reasons Steve is fighting to get Bucky back: mainly, he has fond memories of their friendship, he wants that connection to his home, and he wants Bucky to be safe and okay. He probably feels guilt over Bucky’s death and wants to Do The Right Thing and Make it Right, as Steve often does, which contributes as well.
But we don’t see Steve rejecting the new Bucky. He doesn’t even know who Bucky IS anymore, and he acknowledges that throughout the film. For the first half of the film, Steve believes that Bucky is responsible for the bombings, he knows that Bucky is violent, and he doesn’t trust Bucky at all. He tries to arrest him, and then shackles him, and then discusses the intel with Sam before accepting that it’s solid. Bucky is unpredictable, and quiet, and full of triggers – completely unlike the Bucky Steve once knew. And Steve accepts all of this… but still he wants to help Bucky. He recognizes that his friend is not who he once was, even if he carries the memories. And he’s fine with this.
We have to remember that no one understands Bucky’s situation quite like Steve: Steve’s also been frozen on ice, he’s also woken up confused in a new century (although, yes, different from Bucky’s experiences). He’s also been a soldier that’s used as a weapon that changed history. He’s changed, and he’s different from the Steve that Bucky would remember, both physically and mentally. They’re both different people, just with a shared past. And they both understand how different they are from who they were.
So I had the impression that Steve was just trying to be an anchor for Bucky. Small memories given here and there, a reminder that Bucky has someone on his side, and a promise to help Bucky FIND OUT who he is, without blame. But I saw no indication in Civil War that Steve was a) fighting for someone who is no longer there, or b) was trying to force Bucky back into a role. The fight scene at the end showed them adapting into different, equal roles, fighting in unison, which had never happened before that moment.
Homecoming / Civil War
Post recruitment “training” the kids of the group.
Part 2 / 2.
On the contrary, @holy-macncheese-batman, I actually took quite a bit of context into account here.
When Peter has his first confrontation with the Vulture, yes, that one isn’t on Tony’s head because that was their first time finding out about him.
But the very first thing Peter did was tell Tony about Vulture and the weapons deal – meaning that Tony now knows about all of it, as well as Peter’s possible involvement as a target for revenge.
Now credit where credit is due – Tony does tell Peter to stick to the small stuff like giving directions to little old ladies.
But then he goes and does this:
He implies to Peter that even though he knows about it, he’s not going to do anything about it. That dealing with highly-deadly alien weapons being sold to street criminals is “below his paygrade.”
That “there are people who handle these things.”
And poor Peter is thinking of what happened at the bank robbery, and how normal people
who “handle these things” won’t stand a chance against alien tech, and assumes that Stark is blowing off what he’s trying to warn him about and is consequently sending people to their death.
Which is precisely what happens on the ferry.
Those FBI agents with their little kevlar vests would not have been able to do a damn thing against those alien tech weapons. There wouldn’t have been a thing that anyone there could have done to prevent that ferry from going down if Peter hadn’t been there. And Tony wouldn’t have even shown up if Peter hadn’t been at that location showing the alert.
Tony doesn’t feel the need to tell Peter anything about what’s going on or supervise the kinds of situations that Peter is getting himself into. He tells him to play it safe, but does nothing to monitor that.
Conversely, every time that Wanda is in the field, she has at least one senior agent with her at all times.
They are all watching her back,
helping her defend herself, and assigning specific tasks that she can safely do. They are training her.
Even in this last gif, despite the fact that Wanda’s got a force field up to protect her from behind, Sam’s still watching her in case her concentration slips or something goes wrong.
(And keep in mind that this mission was never supposed to get as messy as it did – they didn’t intentionally bring her into a situation that was going to end in an all-out confrontation, but they were prepared for the worst case scenario despite that.)
Hell, just watch this whole scene.
Watch the way that they all walk her through it – Steve is asking for what she sees, then prompting her to help with what she’s missing but still letting her draw her own conclusions. He’s showing her how to analyze a situation from every angle, and how to read her opponent. Even sitting in a quiet cafe, Natasha is still nearby, keeping an eye on her and ready to spring into action and help if something goes horribly wrong.
And later in that scene where they’re all forced to split up, Wanda is not sent to chase down the criminals on her own – she remains within distance of Steve, enough so that she can cover his back when Rumlowe sets off that bomb.
Even at the airport fight Clint is at her side almost the entire time, and even shields her with his own body.
They all know that she is young and inexperienced and still very new at this. They know that she can’t take the kind of hits that the rest of them can. They know what her strengths and weaknesses are, and use that to best set her up for success.
The only time that anyone manages to land a solid hit on her is when T’Challa takes out Clint, leaving her alone to hold up the radio tower rubble, and Rhody shoots her in the back with that sound cannon.
Now compare that to poor Peter, who was basically told “go web them up and try to keep your distance” and then left entirely to his own devices.
Peter has no idea what’s going on, what he’s doing, or what to do in a full-out combat scenario. He certainly doesn’t know what to do against other enhanced.
And he gets his ass handed to him pretty solidly by both Sam and Steve (and kind of by Scott, but that was an accident.)
Peter is thrown into an all-out superhero fight with no training, no experience, and no backup, to face a bunch of highly-skilled and experienced fighters. Even if Tony knew they would be pulling their punches (which is a pretty big assumption given that he knows Bucky can be switched to Winter Soldier mode) he’s still tossing Peter against a group of opponents who are more than able to take him out.
And making a point of keeping it to himself that Peter is fifteen.
As far as the instant kill – yes, there was a “barrier.”
However, this barrier was a “Training Wheels” protocol in the suit that was easily hacked through by a middleschooler on a laptop.
If Tony is supposed to be one of the smartest people in the MCU – someone who is at the absolute forefront of technology, and who supposedly knows that Peter is really smart – why in the hell would he not put any freaking effort into making sure Peter couldn’t get through his lock-out?!
Honestly, all of the stans hype Tony up as this absolute unsurpassed genius, to the point where they’re all attacking Shuri for daring to be smarter than him, but then they brush this off as “well Tony didn’t think Peter would hack it.”
This reads far less like “Tony is a genius” and far more like “Tony thinks he’s a genius compared to everyone else and acts accordingly despite that not being the case.”
Tony assumed Peter wouldn’t be smart enough to hack through some basic programming, and so didn’t bother to put any kind of significant security on his higher suit functions.
That’s the only reason I can think of for Tony not to have bothered with at least an attempt at an actual security system.
As for the “Instant Kill” mode itself, in the scene, Karen asks Peter if he would like to put the suit into “Combat Mode.”
When Peter replies yes, Karen responds “Activating Instant Kill.”
This isn’t a feature that Peter selects. It’s the default for fighting.
Tony has the default fight mode set to kill whoever Peter is facing.
This only makes it worse if we take into account the fact that Tony said stick to the petty crime.
Tony wanted fifteen-year-old Peter to handle petty crime with lethal force.
That’s not good.
I mean that’s really not good…
But that’s another discussion.
Now you could argue relative effectiveness between Wanda and Peter, as I’ve seen a number of people do in the notes, but again, you have to take a lot into context that they’re specifically avoiding.
The situation of their two biggest fights (up till the point of the discussion anyway) was vastly different between the two – one taking place in a crowded market in the middle of the day and the other on a deserted beach at night. As this point has been covered in other replies, however, I won’t get into it.
What I will get into is the background they each came from.
Peter had the privilege of growing up in a fairly stable home with a parental figure to love and care for him, even after his biological parents died.
Wanda was left orphaned and starving on the street with nobody but her brother in a war-torn failed state that was constantly getting shelled.
Peter had the privilege of attending school and being able to expand on his natural genius using the resources around him (even if he had to dumpster dive for some of them).
Wanda had basically nothing growing up. There is an incredibly slim chance that she continued with any kind of schooling once her parents were killed, and
her childhood trauma and loss
has also left her with some pretty significant side-effects that she is still struggling to work through…
Side effects such as a need for validation when acting, a habit of constantly looking to an adult figure (usually Clint) for reassurance, and a fear of being abandoned/left alone.
A lot of it is subtle, but it’s definitely present.
Looking to the nearby “adult” figure for confirmation every time she acts:
Additionally, in almost every group scene she’s in, Wanda is following along at someone’s heels, sticking right by whoever she is with.
In Age of Ultron she and her brother hardly leave each other’s sides. Hell, she’s practically on top of him in any scene they’re in together:
She spends most of Civil War trailing Clint like a little kid so he can protect her, because despite the fact that she can kick anyone’s ass in half the time Clint could (see basically the entire compound breakout scene) she’s scared, and he feels safe to her – he’s one of the few people she trusts implicitly.
And Clint – who is very clearly aware of this – does his best to fulfill
the roll of “protector” for her, even if only for show, to help give
her the confidence she needs to kick ass.
*****MINOR INFINITY WAR SPOILER ALERT*****
Even in Infinity War, after two years of being on the run with Steve and Co., Wanda is still the obedient kid who is doing what her parent figures tell her, even if she doesn’t really want to.
Wanda has the mentality of a child.
(Hell, she may never grow fully out of this – I know people more than twice my age that suffered traumatic childhoods and who still have moments and situations where they act like an upset little kid because of it.)
It’s not something that just “goes away” or “gets better” because she’s in a better place and has a support system now.
It puts her and Peter on about the same level of need in regards to supervision, despite the age difference. Peter needs someone there because he doesn’t have the experience he needs to think things all the way through before making decisions. Wanda has more experience, but needs someone there because she doesn’t have the confidence in her own ability to make decisions.
The thing is, they both still NEED someone watching after them.
Additionally, Peter is already coming into this with an advantage over Wanda – he
doesn’t have the trauma-induced developmental stunt that she’s having to
cope with, or the confidence issues.
He also has his “spidey
senses” which alert him to danger on pure instinct and help him dodge
out of the way. Wanda has to focus her concentration on her powers,
which leaves her open as a target and doesn’t allow for a lot of
Team Cap makes sure that Wanda has the support she needs instead of simply focusing on her physical age, and they all actively supervise her in the field. Nobody can get to her without going through at least one of the others first.
Tony, on the other hand, ignores Peter because having a tag-along teenager is inconvenient most of the time, and it’s so much easier to push him off on Happy, especially when Peter questions his “because I’m the adult and I said to” mentality. Because of this, Peter is essentially a walking target, and is constantly getting himself into trouble. Tony doesn’t care enough to keep an eye on him or give him any kind of proper training.
I mean, hell, just look at the lineups from Civil War.
has Peter on the front line to face off against the others in an
all-out fight. He’s treating Peter like the other combat-trained adults
on his team, not a child with no experience.
Cap are staggered so that Wanda is not only a good pace or two behind
them, but so that Steve and Clint are partially shielding her with their
At the end of the day, what all of this boils down to is the fact that Wanda was recruited because Cap and Clint saw that she had nobody but them left to turn to, and thought she would be a good fit for the Avengers, whereas Peter was recruited because Tony wanted another name on his list of “super hero types that didn’t pick Steve over me” and wasn’t above blackmailing and legally kidnapping a child in order to get that headcount.
Chirping Tiger out,
Something to think on
While we’re on the topic of Civil War having weird narratives: Peter Parker’s speech about being a Superhero completely aligns with Steve’s worldview, not Tony’s… yet Marvel had Spidey side with Tony. It makes his storyline a little muddled, because while the narrative objectively connects Peter to Tony through their heart-to-heart conversation, Marvel wrote Peter as being very similar to Steve. With the characterization they gave us, there’s no way Peter would have joined Tony’s side if he knew anything about the fight.
Peter says to Tony ”If you can do the things that I can, but you don’t, and then bad things happen… they happen because of you” .
Which is the same philosophy that Steve has, and says to Tony twice in this movie: first when discussing the Accords – “What if there’s somewhere we need to go, but [the UN] won’t let us?” – and then later, in a more personal tone: “If I see a situation pointed South, I can’t ignore it”.
Both Steve and Peter believe their powers almost obligate them to help people whenever they can, because they can. Taking that choice to help out of their hands doesn’t make them any less responsible for what occurs – it just shifts the blame. Which is why Steve won’t sign the Accords, and Peter helps people even though he’s just a kid who’d prefer to play football. They want to help, they can help… so they do. It’s that simple honesty and true belief that really defines Captain America, and we see it here in Peter, too.
Tony accepts Peter’s answer even while realizing that it’s Steve’s argument (which is weird, since he fought with Steve on the same statement only hours before), and replies “So you want to look out for the little guy, do your part, make the world a better place?”. Peter agrees and reiterates that the ‘little guy’ is his reason for being a superhero.
Which is interesting, because Steve has always been the little guy from Brooklyn who just wanted to help make the world a better place. Steve and Bucky are the underdog in this fight… not Tony and the government. This aligns Peter with Steve even more, but Marvel still tries to connect him to Tony over their intelligence and shared love of technology.
Tony gets Peter to fight for his side using Steve’s ideology. And Marvel doesn’t really acknowledge the irony in that. It’s especially unsettling when Peter parrots back what Tony said about Steve, not realizing it’s actually Tony’s problem in the film: “You’re wrong, but you think you’re right. That makes you dangerous”.
You guys, do you realize, Bucky getting vindicated and everything else that comes out post-Civil War–Peter’s gonna google all of that and realize what he got fast-talked into (because Tony not only used Steve’s ideology, he used Thunderbolt Ross’s methods: here’s what I want you to know about the situation, that’s all you need to know, btw I have total leverage over you, LET’S GO NOW YES NOW).
So. Please join me in imagining the series of outraged/horrified/possibly actually crying voicemails Peter leaves Tony as he realizes more and more about just how not-in-the-wrong Captain America was.
“Mr. Stark!! His friend was FRAMED and he was RIGHT and I TOOK HIS SHIELD, MR. STARK. I DRESSED UP AS CAPTAIN AMERICA FOR HALLOWEEN THREE TIMES WHEN I WAS A KID, I DIDN’T TELL YOU THAT BECAUSE I THOUGHT HE WAS A BAD GUY NOW BUT THREE TIMES, MR. STARK, AND WHEN I MET HIM I TOOK HIS SHIELD AND–AND–HE PROBABLY HATES ME, HOW DO I FIX IT???”
(And Tony mutters, “Kid, believe me, if I knew,” and continues screening his calls.)
This exchange is fascinating for all the reasons mentioned above, and because it’s Tony at his most charming, most earnest, most underhanded, and most desperate. One of his lowest points in the series, understated. I believe he legitimately is impressed by Peter and feels a connection between himself and the younger man, but it’s precisely because he also sees so much of Steve in Peter that Tony must win him over. Tony may not even be conscious of his deeper motivations, but it’s impossible to resist: the chance to get Steve-by-proxy on his side, finally; to be on the other end of the hero-worship narrative, to be the respected leader of a righteous young hero. And it’ll work, because Tony knows exactly what he’ll fight for.
There’s also the issue of one of the most influential men in the world bribing a minor and lying to his guardian while dangling financial benefits over both of their heads, and the writers absolutely know how creepy this is, but I wish it had been acknowledged more in the text.
ALL. OF. THIS!!!!
Captain America: Civil War Commentary (Joe Russo)
I need to talk about the fact that Bucky’s still got his right hand 100% free and could be punching Spider Man into next Tuesday already. But he still stood frozen, looking shocked as all fucks and lemme tell you right now that that was not because someone’s managed to block his metal fist because lbr the metal arm was never unstoppable before, especially when super-enhanced/-equipped people are involved – so basically he doesn’t take that punch cus he’s actually just now able to hear the other guy’s voice and it clicks that this is just a fucking k i d